Loving More Than One

Polyamory as it relates to my life and written from my perspective only. MY thoughts, feelings and opinions.

Happy Anniversary Dirk!!!

Today is the 27th anniversary of our marriage. Now that’s worth celebrating!

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Doesn’t Want to Share? Or Doesn’t Want to Share with Me?

For the most part, I had a good relationship with Chane. His main fault with me was that I felt Arwen caused the majority of our problems. She controlled our relationship more than I felt was right. Then again, he let her. And I did too to start with. Live and learn.

She’s said since the end of the breakup that she is thankful to have her husband all to herself again. That this was never her idea. Maybe not. But she is actually the one to form a “relationship” with Dirk that didn’t involve just swinging before Chane and I ever did. She may not have known about the word poly….none of us did. But, what wasn’t her idea? Having a relationship with Dirk? Then why did she pursue that? Chane and I having a relationship? Well, double standards did abound in this quad for quiet a while in favor of Dirk and Arwen.Did she have a problem with Chane having another relationship at all? Or was it just him having one with me?

I ask because, though she says she wants him all to herself, they are now paying on a site to meet others that they formerly were only free members of. She is bi, or at least when she decides to be. Are they only looking for other females?

It shouldn’t matter and in the long run, it doesn’t. But, here’s where I have issues. Chane and I loved each other. I still love him. I know she has issues but, I can not imagine asking, even indirectly by my behavior, for Dirk to end a relationship with someone he loved. Period. Much less ask him to end that and then ask him to pursue others with me after having him break things off. (Though I’m sure it would be pointed out to me that I actually did the breaking up. But I didn’t really have a choice. Long, long story.)

Now, to be fair, I don’t know the whole story to what they are doing. It just hurts a bit when I see this online. At no time did I say we should all be exclusive. That was out of my control.  Can’t say that I would have seen anyone else but it was never a requirement of mine that it was forbidden. That came from Arwen to start with.

I miss Chane. I love him and it APPEARS that sharing him wasn’t really the deal, no matter what Arwen has said. It was sharing him with me.

I can’t even say that I’m any where near ready to look for someone else. Not even ready to consider swinging again. And it’s a bit disconcerting to know that they are. For Chane has had to agree to this I imagine. Of course, I suppose there is the possibility that Arwen is the only one looking. The profile is for a couple though.

It’s amazing the things about this that can still hurt. Though I’ll be the first to admit, they have the right to do as they please.

Just wondering today (and after watching something on TV last night that followed some of the same thoughts), what is it about me personally that wasn’t worth Chane fighting for and what it was about me that Arwen found so hard to take.

Not, putting myself down here. I know I am worthy. I know I deserve to be treated with integrity. I just wonder why I wasn’t. And I selfishly wonder why I have do without someone I love.

Oh well, I’ll be better tomorrow.

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Respect and Dignity

I haven’t been writing much about struggles lately. That’s a good thing. We haven’t really been doing much of that lately.

I have been privy, however, to a few of those of others and it hasn’t been pretty. One couple I know has been struggling with issues but open and honest in communications between them. I’ve watched them grow from afar and it’s been a pleasure to see things working out for them.

Another couple I know haven’t done so well. In fact, they have split up and are divorcing. It’s sad. But, I’m not completely sure poly is the only reason. I think it was what brought problems they had been hiding to the front and communication wasn’t thorough with them and it couldn’t overcome what had been going on for years it seems.

I think it’s a natural course in most instances for one person to love more than the other person (whether monogamous or polyamorous). Or at least it easier for one person to show and express that love more easily. One seems to always give a bit more than the other (sometimes quite more than a bit).  One is usually more secure than the other.

Polyamory requires some sense of self worth. It requires not having the mentality of win-lose situation. It requires the ability to see a win-win situation. It means not seeing other relationships your loved one may have as competition. It isn’t always easy. I don’t deny that.

It can’t be a case of double standards being held. Of one being ok with outside relationships only if it’s them participating in them and not being ok with the other doing the same. It can’t be blaming your partner for something you said was ok, something you did yourself.

Yes, I know that being ok with something in theory is different than being ok with it in practice. But, if you discover that to be the truth, you can’t blame your partner for this. You can renegotiate things. Agree that poly isn’t on the plate for either of you any more. Or not. It may end up being a deal breaker. However, you really don’t have the right to lay the blame at the feet of  your partner for you not being ok with something you assured him/her that you were fine with. If you realize that you are not fine with what you stated, there is nothing wrong with explaining this to your partner and dealing with it from there. You have to own that you have a part in the pain or issues you are experiencing. That you can’t do blame if your partner was told this was ok.

It’s one thing to find you have problems with something you thought you wouldn’t have. It’s another to have the relationships yourself, know your partner is working through somethings regarding that, and not be willing to do the same when the shoe is on the other foot. Double standards really rub me the wrong way. Maybe they bother me so much because I’ve lived through them. Dirk will be the first to tell you that he had them. And in a bad way. I believe Arwen has them about some things.

In all relationships in your life you need to treat each other with the respect and dignity that we are all due. Most specifically from those we trust with our feelings. With those we love and who profess to love us.


Franklin’s Map of Non-Monogamy

Check out this link. It’s rather interesting and entertaining at the same time.

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Our Anniversary

Dirk and I celebrated (hmmmm……we haven’t had the chance to do anything special though) our 26th wedding anniversary yesterday. I’ve been with this man a total of 28 years. WOW! We rock.

I love him so much and love that we are traveling this road together. The road we started years ago has had a ride that’s had it smooth, tranquil parts, some bumpy parts, some rather hilly parts and we’ve had to travel through some hurricane weather. We are still traveling our road together.

I love you, Baby!


Sex and Differences

I don’t often blog about sex. I more than admit that I like it and want it and find it in some ways essential. But, I don’t think I could end a relationship entirely over sex (or the lack thereof). It’s true that part of my attraction to someone is there attitude regarding sex and their ability to enjoy sex. Since learning to enjoy my sexuality after many years of repressing it (for reasons totally understandable), I find that sex is an important way of expressing myself. Whether that expression is love for a partner, the simple enjoyment of sex without love or whatever I want it to be.

This was Father’s Day weekend and I feel as if I received a gift instead of the guys. I was lucky enough to have individual time with both my men. And extra lucky for me, part of that time was engaging in sex! How lucky can one woman be?! Enjoying sex with either of them isn’t normally a rare occurrence, but occasionally the following just hits me and I revel in the ability and freedom to enjoy.

Part of any type of open relationship, no matter what you call it—-swinging, polyamory, open marriage, is the diversity of those you engage with. Today I’m strictly speaking of the diversity of those you engage in sex with.

My two men are so alike in may ways and I able to appreciate that. But they do have their differences and sex is one of those. Both are giving sexual partners thank goodness but for the most part that is where the similarities end. Some differences are:

They do not approach/broach sex with me in the same way.

They do not kiss me the same way.

They do not touch me the same way.

One is more vocal than the other.

One is more rough than the other.

They flirt with me differently.

They tell me they love me differently. In ways and in tone.

Still no explicit sex details for me here. I sometimes would like to do that better but I accept my writing limitations.

But, that wasn’t really my intention with this post.

I wanted to plainly state what is glaringly obvious to me at times…I’m so lucky! Poyamory has given us the chance to experience some very diverse relationships and that has truly enhanced our lives in many ways.

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What Is Monogamy?

I follow the blog of a very thought provoking man and with this post he set my mind to thinking. Well mostly in the comments section with this question of his to another reader “Not that I’m trying to pick a fight with you but I am curious; You stated you believe Swing and Poly are different. Yet you and your partner, who you are in a poly relationship with, go to a Swing club. By default doesn’t that show an overlap, even a small one, between Swing and Poly?”

In response to that I wrote in a comment of mine “PP, while she may be poly and she swings with her SO, why does that make the two related or a like? How is swinging with a poly partner truly different than swinging with a mono partner? I’m not being confrontational here but more curious.”

To which PP asked me this “Your comment confused me pretty good though. You said “How is swinging with a poly partner truly different than swinging with a mono partner?” Most common definitions for Monogamy include sex with only one partner and/or marriage to one person during a period of time. Given that definition, how can you swing with a mono partner? By default if you were Monogamous then decided to Swing wouldn’t your relationship then be defined as something other than Monogamous because you have more than one sexual partner?”

I tired to state my reasoning in a short amount of space with this…”My husband and I had been monogamous for 20+ years when we started swinging. And until I read about a year after we started that swinging was considered a form of ethical non-monogamy I wouldn’t have even thought along those lines. But even then I did not really consider us “non-monogamous”. Sure we had sex with others but that didn’t really count as not being monogamous in my mind I suppose. (Because I can separate sex and love? Most likely.)

Now, enter emotions into the equation. A whole different story for me. While I found it easy to share my husband sexually, I did NOT find it easy to share him emotionally. That is where the concept of non-monogamy probably first entered the equation for me.”

I guess my thoughts and beliefs at the time were that swinging really didn’t define monogamy for us. We had sex with others but we did it together. While we didn’t keep a sexual act for just us…as in we wouldn’t do something with a sex partner but would only do that one thing with each other…we did reserve love for each other. Sure, if we saw someone for sex more than once the possibility for a friendship would generally be there, but friendship and romantic love are so different.  We showed our monogamy with our love not with sex.

I’m becoming aware on different levels that most people do not separate the two things…love and sex…when considering monogamy.

Until love for others entered the equation, I (I’m more than fairly certain that Dirk felt the same but these are MY opinions I share here) basically still considered us to be monogamous. So we were swinging as a monogamous couple.

If I were to swing again, either with just Dirk or with just Chane or in any other combination, I would now consider myself to be swinging as a poly individual involved in two poly relationships. While polyamory is a different mindset by far that monogamy, I don’t see swinging as a monogamous person different than swinging as a polyamorous person.

I see where the two camps, swinging and poly, overlap at times. I know people that are part of both camps (myself included) and people that do not want to enter the other camp at all. I can understand that mentality since I’ve been on the far end of the swinging camp that I didn’t want getting close to the middle much less the other end of the spectrum.

The term my fellow blogger has coined for what we were practicing while swinging is “Emotional Monogamy”. I believe that describes it exactly. Dirk and I have ridden the rode of total monogamy, to emotional monogamy, to polyamory. It has at times been a long and complicated journey but even through it all we’ve grown and opened our mind to things we would never have considered. We will never think the same as we did before.

I noticed on my friend’s blog that he also has a term call Accidental Monogamy which he defines as “The result of you and your SO not having any other partners for a while. You plan more and more time together and at some point realize you have been seeing only each other for a significant amount of time. Not something that happens on purpose, but instead happens naturally.”

I’ve heard some people comment that in this situation these individuals are not poly. IMO, that isn’t the case. I’ve said before that I believe poly is a state of mind more than something that has to be practiced all the time. Does the fact that the individuals are only in one relationship each at the moment mean they no longer believe in poly or want to be poly or that they would turn now turn down an opportunity to see someone else if they had one? IMO (as that’s all this blog is really about), that isn’t the case. If you’re happy at the moment, then great! Not everyone can say that.

I’m asked at times if I would live monogamously again. Sure, I could do that. I was happy while I did so. But, because I believe in polyamory now, would I really be able to call myself a monogamous person? Or a poly person living monogamously?


Poly Group

Last week our poly group had it’s monthly meeting. We loosely tried to discuss the topic of communication.

We didn’t fully stay on topic because we had someone with a lot of general questions regarding polyamory. She had good questions. And they led to some very interesting discussions some of which did have to do with communication.

This was a very good meeting. We had good conversation and we had one of the highest attendances ever.  One lady found us through “detective work” and another couple traveled several hours to attend.

Our meetings have gotten bigger, been fruitful and I hope they continue to be so.

Now we need a topic for next month. 🙂

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How Important Is Sex?

I’ve been reading an ongoing thread on a site I frequent that has me asking this question. How important is sex in a romantic relationship? Does the same hold true for poly relationships?

Contrary to the beliefs of the man who initiated this thread I’m referring to, I do know it is possible to love someone and not have sex with them. But isn’t that rare? In any romantic relationship, isn’t the urge for sex between the parties usually there? Whether or not it’s possible for that urge to be acted upon?

I have an online friend who is very happily married. Yet, he loves two other women. Unfortunately, circumstances are that he has to love them from afar so to speak. Would he like to have sex with them? Well, yes. Even without loving them, he is physically attracted to them. Loving them can only make his desire greater. However, not having a sexual relationship with them doesn’t make him love them less. So, while sex would be nice, in the friendship relationships he is able to have with these women, it isn’t a requirement for the love he has for them. I, myself, have never been in such a situation.

For my relationships? With Dirk, sex has always been a prominent issue for us in one way or another. From dealing with sexual abuse in my past and how that affected my views on sexuality to wondering if we’d ever find a time when our sex drives matched to discovering we wanted to try some alternative lifestyles.

With Chane, our relationship started with sex. As I’ve explained before, we met swinging. The feelings of friendship, and later love, that we developed didn’t lessen my interest in having sex with him. It changed how I viewed sex with him. Instead of it being just casual and fun, it became more intimate and put me in vulnerable places.

Bottom line is I like sex. And I like it a lot. I’m not opposed to casual sex, swinging or anything along those lines. And I can participate, or not, in sex of that nature. But, sex with someone I love is different. Some would say it’s not sex at that point but ‘making love’. I find that both true and false. In one time of being with someone I love, I can do all of the following; make love, have just sex and flat-out fuck. And generally that’s how it is most of the time. Which order we do them in probably depends on what mood we are in or what each of us needs at the time.

I find sex with my men to be a time of reconnection if we’ve been distant or arguing. For me, an argument doesn’t mean ‘no sex’. More often than not, it is important for me to share sex with them at that time. A way of saying it doesn’t matter if we are disagreeing or at odds with each other, we will work on finding a solution and a way past the trouble. I’m a passionate person. I love full out and I argue full out. Both are me and it’s important to me to connect regardless of which side of the “full out” equation we happen to be on. If we hit an impasse in our disagreement it doesn’t mean I don’t want to be close to them. Touching in some way physically is very important to me at that time.

Sex, as well as being fun, exciting, hot and sweaty, is also healing for me.

Now, if there ever was a reason one of my men couldn’t be sexual with me or me with them, how would it affect things? I have to say, truthfully, I feel it would depend on if they/me had control of the reason. If, say, it was a medical reason, I firmly see us dealing with the no sex issue and finding something to replace it. If it was a matter of choice, like sexual interest had been lost or, worse, they were spending so much time with other partners there wasn’t anything left for me, then that would be a different story. Either of those instances would say to me that their feelings for me had changed in some way. At which point we would have to determine if it was due to lack of work or investment in the relationship or something on a more permanent basis. The answer would determine our course of action.

While I can be physically attracted to someone I do not love, I find romantic feelings for someone to go hand-in-hand with desire for them sexually. But all this is just me. How important is sex to each of you in your relationships?


Is It Worth It?

From this

To this

Considering the heartaches we’ve been through, both the major ones (and I personally have had some very major hurts through all of this) and the minor ones, do I think it has all been worth it?


Do not get me wrong. I would have avoided so much of this. I don’t even think I would have ever sought our a polyamorous relationship at all even if I had realized such a thing existed. I was living a very happy monogamous life with Dirk. Then we moved to a very happy non-monogamous life through swinging. It was working for us well. Very well.

Where it changed for us was when Dirk met Arwen….someone so totally different from me that his circuits were fried. Because, as much as he loves me, there are aspects to my personality that would mesh better with his if they were different. That and we discovered Dirk had more trouble separating sex and love than I did. Though, I now think he would be more capable of that. And maybe the last big thing to leave him open to falling for Arwen was that he is just more open with his emotions than I am.

Dirk has changed as much or more than I have through this 3 year process. I am proud of the progress he and I have made and that is probably the number one reason I feel it has all been worth it. We have grown do much. Individually and together. Growth like we’ve been through is always worth the process it takes to accomplish that growth. No matter what happens, we will always be better for the experience in that respect.

It’s worth it for the love we have in our lives that we didn’t have before. Both from those we’ve added to our life and from the way our love has grown deeper. We realize that we’ve always been lucky to have so much love in our lives as it was, just the two of us, but when we know our love for each other is big enough to let our love for others into our lives then we are luckier than so many people in this world.

It’s worth it because we have our boyfriend and girlfriend. Though our relationships with them are still in the young stages we are lucky. And the fact that they are young is also nice. We get to experience the maturity of our long established relationship and the aspect of going through the nuances of a new relationship. And Dirk and I are there to support each other through the hard times with our respective loves. Imagining that concept is awesome. So awesome.

It’s worth it because I like the more open minded person I have become. I like that I have started thinking for myself instead of letting others tell me what I should think. I like the even better communication that Dirk and I have between us.

I like developing the communication between Chane and I. I like that I see growth in our relationship. I like that I have two people I can depend on. It is rewarding to see someone willing to put in the effort it takes to make a new relationship work with me. And Chane is really showing me that he wants things to work with me these days. I think we’ve both gotten to a place where both he and I have acknowledged what our relationship can be and are striving to make it the best it can be. I think we’ve both struggles at points with wanting it to be more than he could or we’ve each had a different idea in mind. I think we are on a much closer page regarding this than every before.

I like seeing when things go well between Dirk and Arwen. I know how much he has to offer someone and I am to a point in things (have been there for a while) that I truly love to see him happy with her. Or just happy with whomever he chooses to be with. I like it that he gets some of his needs met that my personality doesn’t always recognize.

Are lives have been greatly enriched by this journey. And if it were to end tomorrow, we would still feel that way. We’d go through pain if that were to happen but, we would not regret taking the journey. Not now. If the journey had ended before we got to this point, well, yes, we may have regretted the risks and pain involved. Not now. We’ve just gained too much at this point for regrets.

Will we, all of us, ever let others in our poly life? Well, who knows? I for one find I have a very low threshold for saying never. For ruling out what I think at this moment may never happen. That’s a lesson I’ve learned. And why should we rule anything out? We learned about negotiation through this. That, just because something was ok at one point in our lives, it doesn’t mean it will always be so. That we can rethink and re-negotiate our currents agreements at any time. And that is just one more thing that makes it all worth it.

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