Loving More Than One

Polyamory as it relates to my life and written from my perspective only. MY thoughts, feelings and opinions.

Why Does She Try To Make Everything About Her?

SSI0002838_VeerI honestly do not understand how Arwen can come up with the conclusions she does. I do not understand why she has to try and make everything about her.

I know she does this and I went the extra step today to try and avoid that this time. It isn’t just with me. It is with all three of us…and at times everyone in general.

I have a couple of commitments this month and they are for times we normally all spend together or would like to. I thought I had communicated with all of them personally what they were and that I wouldn’t be able to do the normal things. And I have them on our shared google calendar…which is becoming pretty obvious that no one pays attention to. When it became clear that one or more of them had forgotten what I told them or maybe I hadn’t gotten to them in the telling, I sent texts to each one of the at the same time explaining what my commitments where, when they were and that my commitments shouldn’t interfere with the three of them going ahead with any plans in the works. I was trying to be nice and reassuring. However, since I know the tendency that Arwen has, I stated plainly that it was so they would not feel obligated to forgo anything because of me and that I wasn’t being mean or anything. I went out of my way to insure I wasn’t misunderstood.

But what the hell do you think happened? Arwen took it wrong. I was mainly making sure the two guys didn’t back out of something she was looking forward to because we all couldn’t go. But she decided I was what? Finding a way out of doing something she wanted to do? What? She would only snap at Dirk when he called her and refused to tell him why. Something he finds very frustrating and more than irritating. If she has a problem with something he wants her to tell him what it is. Not just allude to it or be pissy about it. She does the same with all of us. I am not the only one tired of her attitude. I am just the last one to get that way.

Truth, is…Arwen is the one that limits our time all together more so than even Dirk’s shift work. We have learned to schedule around that. Arwen choses to get 2nd jobs no matter that both men have asked her not to. And her hours for the 2nd jobs never coincide with the hours Dirk has off with his primary job. We used to get to see each other on the weekends even if Dirk was working. They could come down here and stay and spend time with him once he got off. She works three weekends a month. Only trying to schedule the one weekend a month off that is the only one Dirk has completely off. This severely limits quad time and even dyad time for the secondary relationships. Chane will not come stay at our home on a weekend she can not come. I understand why he does that. I get a bit frustrated because he has asked her, as has Dirk, not to take these jobs. It is difficult enough for us all to see each other.

Knowing that we have problems fitting time in, I did not want to ruin any time that the three of them could spend together that I couldn’t. But she obviously can not see that. She assumes something directed at her all the time. That any ones behavior is directly related to her. And never in a good way. We are all out to get her. We all can never let her be right. Same shit just a different day.

I’m so very tired of it all. It makes me just want to throw my hands up in the air and give up on the whole relationship. Which isn’t fair to the rest of us.

We had plans to eat out with them Friday night and while talking with her today, she told me where she would like to go. It is not a favorite place of mine and Dirk’s at all but I’m sure we can find something on the menu we can eat. Going somewhere she suggests was more important to her than me really liking the place. She thinks we don’t ever want to do something she suggests. Not true but related to her whole attitude about things. I told Dirk she wanted to go there and to not tell her no. It was important and we could more than tolerate the place. He was trying to talk to her about it when she snapped and said she didn’t know if we were all still going to meet. That Dirk would have to ask Chane and I. WTF? It was never mentioned not going. The two dates I was talking about were the 10th and the 31st of October. She just got her panties in a wad and was trying to stir up trouble. I don’t know if she has totally pissed Dirk off enough that he’ll refuse to go now or not But, I have shared with all of them that I probably will not go. I have had a rough week and it will not be getting better. It is fiscal year end at work, something I have explained many times to all three of them in the past few weeks. I just don’t have it in me to smooth Arwen’s feelings. Especially over something that she has chosen to make a big deal out of and is clear I didn’t mean anything bad by.

I will not try to mollify her as I have in the past over something that is clearly not my fault. And Dirk got extremely put out with me this evening when he thought I was doing that. He says I let her influence and control my behavior way to much. And he is right. I don’t as much as I used to everyone will admit. I am not the doormat that I was. I am more true to my personalilty these days. And it makes me not even want to be the giving person that I was trying to be when I sent the messages. Why should a person make the effort to be nice and giving when it is only going to be taken and twisted to suit another’s personality flaws?

Ok., I guess that is enough of a rant.

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Family Episode 19 “Medical Rations”


The lastest episode in the “Family” web series. If you haven’t watched them before, please watch them all. I hope you like them. I look for each new episode twice a month.

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His Heart Is Broken

SSI0014468_VeerMy youngest moved in with his girlfriend a month and a half ago. Since then, things have completely turned around in their relationship.

I’m his mom but that doesn’t mean I do not know his faults. However, from what I can tell, and I’ve been called by both of them on this matter, it doesn’t seem his behavior has changed. Her’s has. I think it is a big case of getting out on her own, starting college and thinking she wants something different. She claims she wants to be a kid again. Well, moving out on your own is a sure fire way for that luxury to end. Granted, her family is mostly paying her half of the bills for her. The ones she was to be responsible for halving with our son, she has left up to him to pay.

I have no problem with realizing you can not live with someone and needing to end the relationship. However, I have a problem if you chose to be cruel in doing so.

He is having such a difficult time dealing with this. He can not understand how she could love him enough to move in with him such a short while ago and now to have no feelings for him at all. I think he is having such a hard time handling this because of the drastic change in her behavior. That she is being cruel when that was never her way before.

I would absolutely love to be able to lessen this pain for him. Or at least to make it shorter in duration. But that is the spare your child part of the mother in me. The realistic part of the mother in me knows that he will have to face this at least once in his life and it is a learning tool. That part of me knows that sparing him now will not help him in the long haul.

I can not convince him, however, that I do know what it is like to have a broken heart. Apparently, that is something neither his dad or I could have possibly have lived through. (Yeah, you hear the sarcasm.) I don’t try to sugar coat it for him. He has asked my opinion on whether I think she’ll come around and want to make things work out with him. I do not. From her behavior, I think she means this to be permanent. So, I tell him that when he asks me. False hopes are not something he needs and not something I can give him. No matter how much I’m aware he would like to hear that from me.

The thing I regret is, not really having better advice. Well, my advice isn’t bad. I just wish I could explain it in a way that he could actually wrap his head around. You’d think that I have enough relationship experience to help him. But it is my relationship experience that knows this will take time. That his pain will not be over tomorrow or even next week. It could be there for a long while considering how deep his feelings for her are. But I know, as most of you do, that each day the time he can go without feeling like he isn’t going to make it will be less and less. The five minutes he can go today without thinking of it will turn into ten and then fifteen and then thirty and so on and so on.

It is painful to me to watch him go through this. It is painful to watch your child hurt in any way. Being a parent sucks at times. And he won’t realize that not only do I know how he is feeling now, that I have actually been through this myself, but that it hurts to watch your child go through pain unless and until he has children of his own and goes through something like this with them. And the mother in my would spare him that as well if I could.

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Born To Cheat? The Nightline Faceoff

CNI0773895_VeerThe writer of one of my favorite blogs wanted to address this topic .  Jenny Block and Noel Biderman (founder of Ashley Madison) faceoff against a minister and a former sex addict on the subject of monogamy and adultery. She, however, chose not to discuss the show because she felt she would just sound bitchy and argumentative. So, since I find I’m in the mood to not mind being either of those things, I will attempt to address this, albeit not as eloquently as I feel she could have.

First, let me explain and state plainly that I AM a Christian. OMG, how is that possible you may wonder. Simple, I do not feel my beliefs on monogamy are contradictory to my faith. Both the minister and the former addict stated everything I was raised to believe. I had been taught all of that. And I truthfully do not have a problem with what they believe marriage is…I just now believe, through study of my own and not following the pack, that marriage can be different. I do not agree with their definition of adultery any longer. As for Noel, while I can not believe that adultery is good for a marriage, he did have some valid points. And Jenny…well, she more closely states my views than anyone on the panel.

As I sat listening and watching this episode today over the internet (the link is in my first sentence of this post), I wanted to be there and pose my arguments. It’s true that the bible states to love your spouse as Christ loves the church. Unselfishly and unconditionally. And my argument is….I do love my spouse this way. How much more unconditionally and unselfishly can I love him? Aren’t I doing that when I do not limit his happiness to just what I can give him? When I am not out to own him, his emotions or his sexuality?

But, I think the difference here is in much part due to what is considered adultery. The religious argument is that it generally involves sex. While, I think it involves truth and lies between spouses. They say it is breaking a convenant. I agree with that. They say that the covenant is defined by God. I can even agree with that. They say that the bible states from cover to cover that marriage is between one man and one woman. I can not agree with that. They say that while it is true that polygamy was practiced in the old testament that God didn’t condone it. I can not agree with that. If He didn’t condone it, He would have stated as much. He often stated what he didn’t condone. He always let it be know what a sin was. While I can see vaguely why they may say He didn’t condone it since He never specifically said it was ok. I tell you that He didn’t condemn it either since He never specifically did that either. In fact, when David took Bathsheba for a wife, God didn’t rebuke him for that. He condemned him for killing Uriah, her husband, so that he could have her.

I see no true argument that marriage is one woman and one man. And I see no argument that adultery is sex outside of marriage.What I see through study is that adultery is stealing. In old testament times especially, a woman was thought of as a man’s property.I see adultery as being deceitful and untruthful. I do not see a covenant written that states I can not have sex with another man. I see that I should honor the covenant I have with my husband. Well, surprise here for many of you…I AM honoring the covenant I have with my husband. I always have. When that covenant was for us to be monogamous I honored it. When we renegotiated the covenant between us to include sex with others, I honored it. Now, here is where the covenant between us was broken. We agreed to be able to have sex with others but emotions were not to be allowed beyond friendship of any kind. Dirk did break that covenant. He’ll admit that. But, we chose to renegotiate again. Instead of him ending things with Arwen and us moving on with the covenant we had or going back to the covenant of monogamy, we chose to include love for others in the covenant we had with one another. So, through all of this, the only time adultery entered into our marriage was when Dirk fell in love with Arwen. That was dishonest to an extent because he knew he should be avoiding that. It was breaking our covenant…and therefore, it was adultery.

I have prayed and prayed on this. How could I not when I was raised as I was. I talk with God. Do not be mistaken in thinking I do not have a relationship with God just because I not longer participate in an organized church or because I have learned to think for myself about what God wants for my life. I do have a relationship with Him. And I do know what it feels like for Him to be convicting me about something that is outside His will. He is not doing that about our polyamorous lifestyle. He gives us free will. Free will to make wrong, sinful choices and free will to think for ourselves.

He is a God of love and He created sex for us to enjoy. I just do not think He created sex to be what holds us together. I can not describe to you how much I love Dirk. The depth of love we had to feel for each other to trust each other enough to open our sex life to others. And the even greater amount of love it took to overcome the adultery and move on from there in opening up our marriage to others for us to love.

Again, I have to ask, how is that not loving as Christ wants us to? How is giving each other the freedom to love others and enjoy sex with others not unselfish and unconditional love? Not limiting what we can each experience in life and the happiness and love we can give each other is love to us.

Well, I know I didn’t address this topic as well as it deserves and I’ll later think of things I should have included but, I did get a bit of it off my chest.


Another Date Night: This One With Chane

DVI0707014_Veer It finally happened!!! Chane and I were able to have a date night and get in some time for just the two of us!

There was a movie he had been wanting to see and a place for a light dinner I had been wanting to revisit.

We decided to see the movie first and headed to the mall. Since the movie was a little later starting than we had thought, we spent some time just wondering around the mall and doing some window shopping. A visit to the bookstore was included in that and, if someone goes to a bookstore with me, I will stay until they tell me they have had enough and are ready to leave. Chane knows this thankfully and doesn’t mind. I walk into a bookstore and take a deep breath…just to smell the books. Yeah, I’m a little on the strange side.

We made our way back to the theater and watched the movie. Not one I would have picked necessarily but not one I was opposed to viewing either. Turns out it was a nice surprise and I enjoyed it better than I thought I would. That happens sometimes with me. And truthfully, there are very few movies or genres that I just absolutely do not like. I’m open to trying something new even if it is a type I haven’t spent a lot of time getting into. It was an animated Tim Burton movie and discussing some of his movies over dinner with Chane, I learned some things about how much is involved in filming them.

We then headed to the Winery. I’ve been there several times in the past, in different combinations of our quad, and neither Chane not I have ever seen it as crowded as it was last night. It was great. A room that is generally closed was having a party, the main area had live music going and the outside area was full of people just having a good time. We had to sit outside and, as Chane said, it wasn’t bad but 10 degrees cooler would have been nice. It seems the place has come into its own. That others have discovered it and enjoy the experience. The wine list was larger and the menu was definitely more extensive. We chose a couple of light items from the menu to complement the main attraction. The wine. We chose to buy it by the glass so that we could get a couple of different kinds and sample each others. Unfortunately, we both had to drive home so we limited ourselves to one glass a piece and spent a little time just people watching after drinking that before leaving.

Just having a few hours last evening to spend with him was great. I need that and we do not get to fit it in as often as I would like. Nor, as often as Chane would like according to what he said last night. It makes me feel good to know he’d like to spend more time with me. Like I told him earlier in the week, I do not always know that he would like that.

I’m lucky to have the boyfriend I have. He enjoys trying new things. Doesn’t mind, and even encourages me to chose things that I want to do. He has come to realize that if I tell him I have no preference for what we spend our time doing that I mean that. If I want to do something specific, as I did last night, I will tell him.

It’s odd for me to have dates with both of my men in one week and, on top of that, all four of us went to the meet and greet again this month on Thursday. Man did it make for a lovely week for me!!

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Reconnecting With Hubby: A Date Night

SBP0336771_VeerI follow several blogs. A few of my favorites are about sharing lives that are polyamorous or open marriages. Imagine that. That I would be interested in how someone travels those roads.

Anyway, one of these blogs was talking about closing their marriage for a couple of weeks to reconnect with each other. No contact of any kind with their OSO until things are back on track with them. They have been going through a rough patch.
While, Dirk and I haven’t been going through a rough patch, we have been a bit neglectful of taking the opportunity to spend some quality time together. Finances have been a strain lately, things going on in the lives of our children have added more stress and just Dirk’s shift work in general. The shift work we usually work with fairly well considering. We just make sure to take what time we can find together and make it count. With both the boys no longer living at home, you would think that we would have done a better job of that lately. It’s just been a case of letting life get in the way. Not talking much and we can not remember the last time we made love. Not a good thing.
So, I asked him yesterday afternoon if he would like to have a date with me last night. He was surprised and all for it.

It went extremely well. We decided to splurge (and I refuse to feel guilty about that) and went to a new place for dinner. A little place we have passed frequently and always said we were going to try. It was worth the trip. Seating consisted of a small bar, three high tables and maybe four low tables. The front of the place was a store of sorts that sells wine, cheese and other gourmet items and you find the restaurant at the back. Three employees there total. A bartender, a cool and a waiter. Good service and quality food. All together a rather nice experience. If you are interested check it out here.

We talked, held hands, flirted, and just generally spent that quality time we both stated was long overdue for us. We had time for all this since the dining experience there is not rushed in the least. In fact, do not go there if you are in a hurry. We just savored the evening and time went by without us being aware of it. The best kind of evening. We made it home and made up for the missed sex as well. Three times from night until morning. If we can’t remember specifically the last time we made love, you can imagine that the last time we did three times in a night has long slipped our memory. Are we just getting old? It didn’t used to faze us for that to happen. We still love sex with each other as much as ever. Well, we love sex period. Is it our ages? Or have we been letting live get too much in the way. We talked a bit about that last night. I told him I had been thinking about it. And sex seems to be a feast or famine thing with me. I’m either getting it a lot (from both my men) or I’m rarely getting it (again from both my men). He says it seems to be the same with him these days. I suppose we consciously need to make the time for sex the way we used to as well.

I’m thankful to the blog that made me realize I needed to make an effort to reconnect with my hubby and I’m thankful the man was in agreement with the whole thing. I’m thankful to have such a husband as he is. One that thinks these things are as important as I do. One that gets as much enjoyment out of the whole date as he does the sex. One that appreciates me for being me. One that has been willing to expand his experiences through the years with me. One who isn’t afraid to try something different and outside the box.

I’m one lucky wife! Wouldn’t you agree?

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He Misses Me


I’ve been sharing how I just don’t know if Chane wants to see me or not. That he makes me feel that the quad relationship is more important to him than our dyad relationship.

Yesterday, out of the blue, he sent me a text that said he loves me and he misses me. A really big grin broke out on my face at that. Today I mentioned that I would ask him to meet me Friday night but I know they are basically down to one car since their youngest has been using the other one. He said he would check to see if something could be worked out. He said you know I want to see you. I told him that, no, I didn’t always know that but I’m more than glad he does.

Men. Why would he assume I would know he wants to spend time with just me if he doesn’t communicate that to me?

I’m feeling good that he told me these things without prompting on my part.

It’s a good day.

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Is It In Our Nature?


I belong to a couple of forum boards and the following is a question posed on one and my response. I wonder what some of you think about this.

I’ve had this on my mind for a while now, but is being poly, and even swinging in our nature? Society says that you are only allowed to love one person. If a woman is sitting in the park with her two boyfriends and her two girlfriends, and she is openly affectionate with all of them, people will look at her like she the biggest slut, when in fact she loves each of them. I know people look at swingers and must think, “Oh my God, have these people done everything sexually possible, and the only way for them to get off now is to have sex with other people,” when in fact it’s something that they both enjoy and have an agreement about. I don’t think that there is anything wrong with monogamy, but I do think that we limit ourselves. Just like homosexuality is natural. Some of us are, and some of us aren’t. Then isn’t it also in our nature to be polyamorous? Some of us are and some of us aren’t. I expressed this to a friend of mine, and she told me that I’m just a cheating dog and that she feels sorry for whoever I date.

my response
So, what you are asking is…is non-monogamy in our nature? Right?

I have to say that yes, it certainly can be. Maybe even is period.

I do find it “natural” to find others attractive. Anyone who claims that they never find someone else other than their SO attractive is either lying or way to obsessed with the SO. What you do with that attraction is the point. Swinging, open marriages and polyamory are ways of admitting this attraction and dealing with it ethically.

I also find it “natural” to love many people. And most agree with that. They just limit romantic love to one person. And, just as above, if you find you love someone else, it is what you do with that love that matters.But I wonder at times how many people would still feel that loving more than one was the only way if they knew they were free to love more than one person at a time.

Now, I have not always believed some of this. Once I left the church and started thinking for myself some things changed. Swinging wasn’t hard to do really. After all, I was sharing this with my husband. And I know sex doesn’t have to include love. Knew that even as a sunday school teacher and the wife of a deacon.

Now, sharing my husband with someone else emotionally wasn’t easy. Loving one person at a time in much more ingrained by society I think. And you have much more of yourself invested in the process of love than just a physical act. You are vulnerable in many ways here.

Through my journey since 2005, through swinging and polyamory, I’ve learned that people are capable of more than the world will let them know they are. Can everyone get past what they have been taught even if they suddenly believed all this was in their nature? No. Absolutely not. Some won’t be able to stand up to the work of relearning and some just will not want to. I was very happy in my marriage of 20 years. I have a different life now in many ways. But I am still happy in my marriage of 25 years. And if it came down to it, I could still be happy with just Dirk in my life…sexually and romantically. It’s all in the depth of my love for him and what we have come through in this world together.

While I could be happy in a monogamous relationship with Dirk again, I will never again believe that is the only way.

Hmmm….so, I guess all that boils down to it depends on what you do with it. I think a lot of things can be in our nature. Whether good or bad. Certainly many bad things are done by people in the world. What you do with things you feel is the answer. No hurting others seems to be the answer.

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People Don’t Believe

MAI0002651_Veer Why is it that people can have such a problem believing the truth?

Chane often tells some of the people he works with that he has a girlfriend. They just seem to blow this off. Even if Arwen confirms this they think she is just playing along with his joke. I’ve been to his office and, while I don’t make out with him there, I don’t stop myself from calling him endearments or touching him (I can be a touchy/feelly person). They work in cubicles so they can just talk back and forth. I tell him I love him before I leave. Who do they think I am?

Here’s an example of the four of us out together.

We all four went out to eat and Chane and I needed to go to the restroom when we first got there so, Arwen and Dirk walked in together and had already been led to a table by the time Chane and I got there. It was a semi-circular booth we sat in and the seating arrangement ended up being Arwen on the outside on one side, Dirk next to her, me next to Dirk and Chane on the outside on the other end. So, it could be very logical for a waiter to think that Dirk and Arwen were together and Chane and I were together…we arrived in these pairs and sat next to each other like this.

He was a very personable person and gave great service. At bill time, he was kind enough to at least ask who was together. We told him that Dirk and I (in the middle) were on one ticket and Chane and Arwen (on opposite ends, across each other) were on the other ticket. He said fine but when he returned he still had it wrong. Not an unusual occurrence when we dine out. And I am often tempted to just explain the situation to them but am never sure what the other three would feel about that. While the young man was gone to fix the bills, I told them what I was tempted to do, they didn’t mind at all.

So, when he returned and apologized for the mix up, I told him that was fine…most people got confused. I then pointed to Dirk on my right side and told him that he was my husband and then pointed to Chane on my left side and said he was my boyfriend. He thought I was joking and proceeded to tell me a story about one time some swingers had been there and invited him to join them later. He said it was a good joke I was playing. I looked him dead in the eye and told him I wasn’t joking. He just looked at me. Arwen then pointed to Dirk on her left and told him he was her boyfriend and pointed to Chane across from her and told him he was her husband. He said that’s what she just said (meaning me) and then we explained again who was whose husband and who was whose boyfriend. He just looked at us again and tried to laugh a bit. Took our money and that was it.

We figure he went home that night and just couldn’t decide whether to believe us or not.

I think it is a matter of who really knows you as to if they will believe you or not. We are not really out. I have a very conservative boss and work in small town government. Not a good place to have such a different outlook on life or at least to openly live it. Dirk works at a gossipy place and if they knew there, it would get back to my office and his ultra conservative family. Arwen has a sister that she rarely talks with. But Chane, as I’ve stated in the past, has told his family. His mom and sister are fine…may not get it but that doesn’t matter to them. His dad just won’t really talk about it. But I have to wonder at times, would it matter if we told people at work? Would they be like they are at Chane’s office? Not believe the truth when they have been told?

Now, Chane just has fun with them

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Has He Given Up The Fight?

ccp0003668 veer1
I know that I have been sharing lately about how I’ve felt the relationship with Chane and I has been going and I’m wondering if my perceptions may have not taken into account the whole story.

I was praying yesterday and in the prayer I asked God, again, was this poly relationship not what he wanted for me. I’ve been struggling with it again. Not if it’s right but, with the dyad relationship Chane and I have. Then, last night while driving home, some thoughts came to me

Once upon a time Chane seemed to put as much importance on our dyad relationship as he did the quad relationship. To the extent of just he and I going away for a weekend together (of course, it goes without saying Dirk and Arwen were free to do the same). He used to ask me to do some things with him. I most often turned him down because I was afraid or knew Dirk wouldn’t like it. Those are just a couple of examples.

No, here’s the theory I came up with after these thoughts came to me. Has Chane quit seeking time alone with me because he has given up on it? Has me turning him down in the past due to some issues Dirk had (which aren’t there any more), the deal with Dirk and Arwen nearly spitting up. etc made him believe it is futile? That he has to cultivate the quad relationship more than our dyad just so we can be together period? I get discouraged and disappointed at times. Was he feeling like this and it’s just easier not to let himself want things like that any more?

I am going to have to talk with him about this…just need to decide the best way. Face-to-face or not. I’m not sure when I’ll see him again. In a month?

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